GEA Golf Forum > NCAA Men's Champ Using Single Length Irons

Full Version: NCAA Men's Champ Using Single Length Irons

From: rb (BUE1945) [#1]
 1 Jun 2015
To: ALL

I was watching the NCAA Men's Individual championships today, and they did a feature on Bryson Dechambeau of S.M.U., the eventual champion, and his single length set of irons.
I read elsewhere on line that they were built for him by Edel Golf, and they are along the same lines as single length sets discussed at length on several threads here.....all irons 7 iron length (37.5" in his case), same weight, same lie angle. The young man is a physics major, so presumably knows what he is talking about. Link provided below.....

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/smus-dechambeau-explains-his-unique-golf-clubs/

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From: hardpan [#2]
 1 Jun 2015
To: rb (BUE1945) [#1] 1 Jun 2015

....and a Golfing Machine fan

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From: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#3]
 1 Jun 2015
To: rb (BUE1945) [#1] 1 Jun 2015

Lanny Watkins just called it a gimmick.

"If it really worked, legit players like Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus would have done it years ago"

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From: boomboom (cavemeister) (SWISSMUESLI) [#4]
 1 Jun 2015
To: rb (BUE1945) [#1] 1 Jun 2015

Wow these so called experts dont know about this iron setup? Most the guys on gea and golfwrx know about this. Talking heads can be pretty knowledge bereft.

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From: Shiver Me Timbers (MIKE1960ISH) [#5]
 1 Jun 2015
To: ALL

That kid is really articulate. Very impressive...

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From: Shiver Me Timbers (MIKE1960ISH) [#6]
 1 Jun 2015
To: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#3] 1 Jun 2015

quote: Shaggy (SHAGBAG)
Lanny Watkins just called it a gimmick.

"If it really worked, legit players like Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus would have done it years ago"


I don't understand his statement, "if it really worked..."

The kid won the NCAA Championship, so obviously it worked. Am I missing something?

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From: rb (BUE1945) [#7]
 1 Jun 2015
To: boomboom (cavemeister) (SWISSMUESLI) [#4] 2 Jun 2015

My thought exactly. On TGC, Gary Koch admitted that "it DOES make some sense".....but Charlie Rymer said "It works for him, but it's NOT something I'd recommend for the folks at home....."

I'd hate to think their OEM sponsors color their opinion of the single length idea....

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From: Champ (CLUB CHAMP) [#8]
 1 Jun 2015
To: ALL

I watched the video and it seems like everyone, including the commentators on the Golf Channel, seemed to miss the obvious aspect of shaft length creating more distance. All of them were saying that loft is what increases distance but that's simply not true. Increasing the shaft length creates more head speed and enables the player to hit the ball further. I would guess that if you decreased the shaft length in your 3 iron to that of a 7 iron length that the result would be a loss in distance, even if the weight of both heads were made to be the same.

I found it odd that nobody commented on this obvious piece of information that is fundamental toward adding or decreasing distance.

But, then again, my logic is superior to most.

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From: Scott Free (PINGJEFF) [#9]
 1 Jun 2015
To: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#3] 2 Jun 2015

I think Lanny's hidden message was "I didn't use them, so they have to be a gimmick." He just couldn't get away with saying it out loud.

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From: G400 Hopeful (VALUEGOLF) [#10]
 1 Jun 2015
To: Champ (CLUB CHAMP) [#8] 2 Jun 2015

quote: 3X Club Champ (CLUB CHAMP)
I watched the video and it seems like everyone, including the commentators on the Golf Channel, seemed to miss the obvious aspect of shaft length creating more distance. All of them were saying that loft is what increases distance but that's simply not true. Increasing the shaft length creates more head speed and enables the player to hit the ball further. I would guess that if you decreased the shaft length in your 3 iron to that of a 7 iron length that the result would be a loss in distance, even if the weight of both heads were made to be the same.

I found it odd that nobody commented on this obvious piece of information that is fundamental toward adding or decreasing distance.

But, then again, my logic is superior to most.


Length has something to do with it, but loft has the biggest effect by far. The kid is correct.

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From: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#11]
 2 Jun 2015
To: ALL

If you have enough clubhead speed, and I assume he does, it should not be hard to get the gaps right. Average golfers are not as blessed. Speed usually changes by 1-2 MPH per 1/2" difference in club length. Iron distances change by 2+ yards per MPH.

OTOH, his irons are 37.5", and that's on the long side for a single length set IMO. Seeing how my irons stop at 37.5" (6 iron), I could actually gain distance with a set just like his. I'd have to add loft to the short irons, I suppose.

What I cannot see is playing a 37.5" sand or lob wedge!

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From: Mike (DESMOND) [#12]
 2 Jun 2015
To: ALL

Did you take a look at his position at address?

It's different - believe it's easier to start "on plane".

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From: BlkNGld [#13]
 2 Jun 2015
To: rb (BUE1945) [#1] 2 Jun 2015

There are plenty of physics majors doing it the conventional way, too.

It's different, and like most things this does some things better, some not so much.

I suspect a glance at his loft gapping would make most gearheads do a double take, as they're probably a lot more pronounced than for the rest of us.

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From: BlkNGld [#14]
 2 Jun 2015
To: rb (BUE1945) [#7] 2 Jun 2015

If I were an OEM and this started to get any legs at all, I'd offer it as an option.

Constant length set with different loft gaps. It's a quick and easy way to sell a different set of irons. From a business perspective it's better if it's a fad. Get in, make some quick money on it, go then sell everyone another conventional set.

It's not surprising to me that his irons came from Edel. The model they have with the Hogan irons sold by loft supports this really well.

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From: BlkNGld [#15]
 2 Jun 2015
To: Scott Free (PINGJEFF) [#9] 2 Jun 2015

Lanny clearly believes that everything about the game of golf has been discovered in his time.

I would be fun to have someone tell him about a player that counterbalanced their clubs, hear him pooh pooh it, then tell him it was Jack.

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From: BlkNGld [#16]
 2 Jun 2015
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#11] 2 Jun 2015

I thought the same thing.

What makes a little more sense to me would be to have a constant length for the scoring clubs where the shafts are a bit shorter for accuracy and a bit longer for the mid/long irons.

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From: diz11 [#17]
 2 Jun 2015
To: rb (BUE1945) [#1] 2 Jun 2015

I was surprised that the golf channel guys said that they have never heard of this. I'm no expert, but I've heard of this. There are many recent (last 10 years) websites you get on a search, but the one I remember goes back to the 80s.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/48510/WOULD-YOU-BELIEVE----GOLF-CLUBS-THAT-ARE-ALL-THE-SAME-LENGTH.html?pg=all

diz

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From: Scott Free (PINGJEFF) [#18]
 2 Jun 2015
To: BlkNGld [#15] 2 Jun 2015

I can't stand him as an announcer. He babbles on about everything. He must get paid by the word.

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From: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#19]
 2 Jun 2015
To: G400 Hopeful (VALUEGOLF) [#10] 2 Jun 2015

I used to think that, but playing around with the Flightscope trajectory optimizer and fooling around with bending clubs has me questioning it. Or more precisely, ball speed has a lot to do with shot distance. Ball speed comes from club head speed and how it's transferred. Loft effects smash.

The end result of all of that is that his irons probably have some funky lofts. If you have two clubs with equal length and equal headweight, you should swing them the same speed.

Look at the Trackman averages for tour players:

Say a player swings his 6 iron at 92. He gets a 1.38 smash for solid contact on a 6 iron loft. His ball speed is 127.

His three iron, swung at 98 with a 1.45 smash gives him 142 ball speed.

His wedge, swung at 83 with a 1.23 smash gives him 102 ballspeed.

Now, assume that he decided to make all clubs his 6 iron length and weight, so he's swinging all of them at 92. But the smash is determined by solid contact and loft, so that remains the same for each club.

Now his ball speed with the 3 iron drops to 133.4 and his wedge increases to 113.1.

If his launch angle stays the same and he loses a little spin on the 3 iron (say 500 rpm from less ball speed), his 3 iron would suddenly go about 18 yards shorter and about 20 feet lower (10.4 launch, 4630 spin, 142 ball speed = 219 carry; 10.4 launch, 4100 spin, 133 ball speed = 201 carry).

The wedge would suddenly go 14 yards further (24.2 launch, 9300 spin, 102 ball speed = 135 carry; 24.2 launch 10000 spin 113.1 ball speed = 149 carry).

That's not something that can't be overcome by tweaking lofts and spacing, but simply cutting all the irons to a single length and head weight and using traditional lofts is going to present a significant issue with distance.

Playing around with this in real life, I hit the exact same PW bent to 45 and 48. I expected it to be about 9-10 yards longer at 45. It wasn't. It was more like 4-5.

Jacked up lofts play a part in why TM's distance irons are longer, but if you look close, they are usually coupled with lighter and longer shafts. Ball speed is king and those things create it.

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From: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#20]
 2 Jun 2015
To: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#19] 2 Jun 2015

I'm pretty sure the smash will not be the same for each club, because of the differences in loft. You said that yourself, but you seem to be saying later that it would stay the same.

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